In this interview, Jeff Payne, the CEO and founder of Coveros, explains the fundamentals of agile and DevOps and their roles in the world of testing. He gives his thoughts and lessons for how to leverage DevOps and agile to further your career while creating and testing better software.
Jennifer Bonine: Hello, we're back with our virtual conference interviews, and we have Jeff Payne with us. Jeff, thanks for joining us.
Jeff Payne: Very happy to be here.
Jennifer Bonine: Pleasure to talk with you. Let's talk about ... You've been here for a while, so that you're on day four.
Jeff Payne: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, yes.
Jennifer Bonine: Yes. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, four days.
Jeff Payne: I'm still speaking. I can still speak, that's the amazing part.
Jennifer Bonine: You're going on day four. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're hearing this year at the conference because you've been here the whole time? What are the delegates talking about for those that aren't here? What's the big hot topic or confusion pinpoints slash for everyone this year?
Jeff Payne: One of them is definitely DevOps. Everybody's still talking about DevOps. What does it mean? What is it? How do testers play into it? How do we get started in it? How do we get everybody together? Is it the same thing as Agile? Is it different than Agile? Everybody is talking about that, trying to figure it out. Of course, every vendor is selling DevOps, whatever that means.
Jennifer Bonine: Whatever that means, but they've got something to sell.
Jeff Payne: They're all selling it. Everyone says continuous integration, delivery, DevOps, it's in front of every product name now. Yeah.
Jennifer Bonine: I maybe need to get aware, right? Everyone's selling it, everyone's talking about it. What would you say kind of a simple answer for the folks out there that may be just as confused as some of the people here, where are some good resources? Where is a good place to go to get introduced? I know people throw that term around a lot and it can be amazing. I think I was looking at a number of jobs that are out there that say—
Jeff Payne: For DevOps.
Jennifer Bonine: DevOps. How do people even know what that means or what it is? Your take on that just for them.
Jeff Payne: I have a couple of books I like. Most people who are in DevOps know of the book The Phoenix Project, Gene Kim. That is a great place to start for anybody, because it's not only an informative book, it's written as a story, and that makes it a lot ...
Jennifer Bonine: It's easy to read.